Trump, Crime, In-Laws, and ‘Human Feces’: Newsom & DeSantis Finally Square Off in Wild Fox News Debate

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis is running for the 2024 Republican presidential nomination, and on Thursday night, sharing a stage with DeSantis for the first time, California Gov. Gavin Newsom was quick to remind him that his effort to "out-Trump Donald Trump" wasn’t going very well.

Taking on the debate against Newsom certainly didn’t win DeSantis any points from Trump, who on Thursday ridiculed him as “more like a thirsty, third-rate OnlyFans wannabe model than an actual presidential candidate”

"And by the way, how’s that going for you, Ron?" Newsom, 56, asked DeSantis, rhetorically. "You’re down 41 points in your own home state."

Newsom’s slam was one of several he delivered to the 45-year-old, second-term Florida governor in their Fox News debate, a showdown that had been brewing at least since September of 2022 when Newsom challenged DeSantis to “take this up and debate.” 

DeSantis, however, landed a few rhetorical blows of his own on his California counterpart and rival, at one point chiding him over the fact that Newsom’s own in-laws, the parents of his wife Jennifer Siebel, relocated to Florida in 2020 during the COVID-19 pandemic.

DeSantis was apparently referring to a Fox News report that Kenneth F. Siebel Jr. and Judith A. Siebel purchased a $3.3 million home in Naples, FL, in March 2020 and subsequently became registered voters in the state. According to a separate report, however, the Siebels kept their California home in the Bay Area. Newsom’s father-in-law is a registered Republican who has also donated money to a political action committee that supports DeSantis, Fox reported.

DeSantis Brandishes ‘Human Feces’ Map

As for Newsom’s claim that DeSantis—who earlier in 2023 had been looked upon as a formidable challenger to former President Donald Trump for the Republican nomination—now trailed Trump by 41 points in Florida, that number came from a poll released Nov. 11 by Florida Atlantic University showing Trump winning 61 percent of Florida Republican voters, with DeSantis, the state’s incumbent governor, taking only 20 percent.

In an acrimonious debate,  perhaps the most head-scratching moment came when DeSantis held up a piece of paper covered in dark brown blotches.

In an acrimonious debate aired live on Nov. 30 from Georgia, that often saw the two governors talking over each other as moderator and longest-running Fox News host Sean Hannity attempted to quiet them, perhaps the most head-scratching moment came when DeSantis held up a piece of paper covered in dark brown blotches.

The paper, he said, was a map of San Francisco and the brown spots represented locations where “human feces” was found on the city’s streets. “You see how almost the whole thing is covered,” DeSantis said.

The map, according to a report by the San Francisco Chronicle, was produced in 2019 by OpenTheBooks.com, a site that uses public data, including data obtained through Freedom of Information Act requests, to create such maps. The site has also produced maps of New York City rat sightings, for example. But the “poop map,” compiled from City Department of Public Works data over nine years, remains its most popular, the Chronicle reported.

But Newsom appeared to get the better of the zinger competition, ending his opening statement by announcing that despite their wide ideological differences he and DeSantis did, in fact, have one thing in common. 

“Neither of us will be the nominee for our party in 2024,” Newsom quipped.

Newsom Again Scoffs at ‘Shadow Campaign' Claim

DeSantis, however, accused Newsom of running a “shadow campaign” for the 2024 democratic nomination, in expectation that Pres. Joe Biden would drop out due to what DeSantis called “cognitive decline.” He called Biden’s candidacy “a danger to the country.”

“When are you going to drop out and give Nikki Haley a shot to win?” 

GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM, TO FLORIDA GOV. RON DESANTIS

Newsom, as he has repeatedly in the past, flatly denied that he had any intention of seeking the presidency in 2024, saying that DeSantis was “just making stuff up,” and adding that he would “take Joe Biden at 100 vs. Ron DeSantis any day of the week at any age.”

Newsom, repeatedly stabbed at DeSantis over the Florida governor’s floundering presidential campaign, at one point prodding DeSantis by asking, "When are you going to drop out and give Nikki Haley a shot to win?" 

Haley, the former South Carolina governor and United Nations ambassador in the Trump administration, has surged closer to and even ahead of DeSantis in some recent polls, but both still trail Trump by double-digit margins.

Showdown Over Crime

There were some issue-oriented exchanges in the debate, however, in particular over crime. Hannity referred to an on-screen graphic showing California’s 2022 “violent crime rate” at 499.5 per 100,000 residents, almost twice as high as Florida’s 258.9. 

In another exchange, Newsom told DeSantis, “Ron, relax. I can handle it. I’m used to bullying. You’re nothing but a bully.”

“You’re a bully!” DeSantis shot back.

According to a study by the Public Policy Institute of California (PPIC), the state’s violent crime rate was 31 percent above the national average in 2022, largely due to a rise in aggravated assaults which have been declining nationwide while rising in California. Otherwise, since 2010, California’s violent crime rate “roughly mirrored the nationwide trend in the decade before the pandemic,” according to the PPIC study. The PPIC also noted that the FBI adopted a new crime reporting system in 2021, and not all states have yet complied. California has been especially cooperative with 49 percent of all law enforcement agencies reporting at least some crime data to the FBI, and 27 percent reporting a full year’s worth of 2022 data.

In Florida, only 8 percent of law enforcement agencies reported anything to the FBI, and a mere 5 percent reported a full year of data. 

Newsom, however, did not bring up the reporting disparity, choosing instead to rip DeSantis over Florida’s murder rate, which remains higher than California’s. In Florida, based on 2021 data, 7.8 residents per 100,000 died as a result of homicide. California’s rate was 6.4. The national average is 7.8 homicides per 100,000.

DeSantis responded by telling Newsom, “I know you like to jabber. I know you like to lie.”

In another exchange, Newsom told DeSantis, “Ron, relax. I can handle it. I’m used to bullying. You’re nothing but a bully.”

“You’re a bully!” DeSantis shot back.

Was There a Winner in the Red vs. Blue Debate?

Taking on the debate against Newsom certainly didn’t win DeSantis any points from Trump, who on Thursday ridiculed him as “more like a thirsty, third-rate OnlyFans wannabe model than an actual presidential candidate” for taking the time to debate Newsom—who Trump for good measure called a “grade A loser.” 

Judging a “winner” of the debate predictably depends on the partisan leanings of the judge. Republicans and other conservatives online, as expected, panned Newsom’s performance while praising DeSantis. For Democrats, it was largely the other way around.

Kevin Kiley, a Sacramento-area Republican congressional rep, called Newsom “the worst governor in America,” in a running commentary on his X (formerly Twitter) account. 

But Democratic congressmember Pete Aguilar, of San Bernardino County, wrote on his account, “Better-paying jobs, safer communities and lower health care costs. There is no one better to talk about the historic progress California has seen under the Biden-Harris Administration than Governor Newsom.”