Newsom Vs. DeSantis: Why the Debate Is On and What the Dueling Govs Might Argue About

UPDATE (8/8/2023): Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis, in a letter to Fox News host Sean Hannity on Aug. 4, proposed his own set of rules for his debate with Gov. Gavin Newsom—rules that a top aide to Newsom dismissed, in a statement to the news site Politico, as “a joke.”

Newsom earlier proposed rules in which the debate would be held with no live audience, and with each governor delivering opening remarks of up to four minutes. Desantis countered with rules in which a live audience would be present for the debate with tickets divided evenly between supporters of each governor. 

Candidates would deliver no opening remarks, under rules proposed by DeSantis, who has been criticized throughout his presidential campaign for his seeming awkwardness in speaking to live voters. 

Instead, DeSantis wants each governor to present a two-minute video to open the debate. The two sides also differ over the debate’s location. The Florida governor nixed Nevada and North Carolina from Newsom’s list, agreeing only on Georgia but also pushing for Iowa which is the site of the first contest in the GOP primary on Jan. 15.

Newsom spokesperson Nathan Click told Politico that the DeSantis proposals are  “crutches to hide his insecurity and ineptitude,” adding, “It’s no wonder Trump is kicking his ass.”

ORIGINAL STORY: Democratic California Gov. Gavin Newsom and his Republican Florida counterpart Ron DeSantis have been battling it out in a transcontinental war of words for over a year, over not only the relative merits of their states, but over the competing visions of America between the Democratic and Republican parties. As far back as September 2022, Newsom laid down a challenge for DeSantis: debate me.

Almost a year later, after months of publicly scoffing at Newsom’s debate challenge—even taunting Newsom for not challenging President Joe Biden in the Democratic primary—DeSantis has apparently agreed to meet Newsom’s challenge.

Why DeSantis Changed His Mind

Why the about-face? DeSantis was once seen as a formidable challenger to Donald Trump in the Republican presidential primary. As late as December of 2022, the Florida governor (who was not yet officially a candidate) led Trump in a Wall Street Journal poll with an impressive 52 percent to Trump’s 38. Since then, DeSantis has cratered. A series of campaign trail blunders while simultaneously blowing through much of his financial war chest has left his campaign staggering. A New York Times poll at the end of July saw DeSantis collect a mere 17 percent, with Trump cleaning up at 54.

Asked about the debate offer by Hannity, DeSantis said, “Absolutely, I’m game. Let’s get it done. Just tell me when and where. We’ll do it.”

The challenge came after DeSantis had arranged for 48 migrants, mainly from Venezuela, to be enticed onto an airplane and flown to—then unceremoniously dumped on—the Massachusetts island of Martha’s Vineyard. Newsom called for the U.S. Department of Justice to open a criminal investigation into the flights. DeSantis responded by telling an interviewer that Newsom’s “hair gel is interfering with his brain function.”

“Hey @GovRonDeSantis, clearly you’re struggling, distracted, and busy playing politics with people’s lives,” Newsom shot back, via his Twitter account. Since you have only one overriding need—attention—let’s take this up & debate. I’ll bring my hair gel. You bring your hairspray. Name the time before Election Day.”

So, When Is This Debate Happening?

DeSantis finally accepted Newsom’s challenge during an interview with Fox News host Sean Hannity on Aug. 2. Asked about the debate offer by Hannity, DeSantis said, “Absolutely, I’m game. Let’s get it done. Just tell me when and where. We’ll do it.”

Earlier, Newsom has said that he wanted the debate to take place on “Nov. 8 or 10,” a proposal that he reiterated through a spokesperson after the DeSantis Hannity interview. DeSantis has at least one other debate coming up. The first Republican primary candidates’ debate is scheduled for Aug. 23 in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. But as of Aug. 4, DeSantis had not confirmed that he would participate in that debate.

Hannity said in his Aug. 2 program that the debate would be “a policy-based debate, you know, red vs. blue, red state vs. blue state.”

The Newsom-DeSantis debate, if in fact it occurs, seems unlikely to take place in California or Florida. Newsom earlier said that he would debate in one of three states that are expected to be closely contested in the 2024 presidential election: Nevada, Georgia or North Carolina. Under terms initially proposed by Newsom, the debate would be broadcast by Fox News, and Hannity would serve as moderator.

What Will This Debate be About?

Hannity said in his Aug. 2 program that the debate would be “a policy-based debate, you know, red vs. blue, red state vs. blue state.”  In terms sent to Fox News in late July, Newsom said that the debate should air live for 90 minutes with no studio audience.

“This is the debate for the future of our country,” DeSantis told Hannity. “Because you have people like Joe Biden—they would love to see the Californi-cation of the United States.”

The median total tax rate in California is 8.97 percent, 12th lowest in the country. Florida does somewhat better, with an 8.21 percent rate, sixth-lowest.

With only one of the two governors running for president in 2024, the debate apparently would focus on the relative merits of their two states, California and Florida. How do the states compare?

As a point of comparison: the issue of taxation—one always high on people’s  minds. Florida may initially appear more appealing because there is no personal income tax there. But when total tax burden is taken into account—including state and local taxes—the states match up almost evenly.

According to a study by the financial site WalletHub, the median total tax rate in California is 8.97 percent, 12th lowest in the country. Florida does somewhat better, with an 8.21 percent rate, sixth-lowest. Californians pay more money in taxes, however. The median tax burden for a California household is $9,612 annually as of 2023, compared to $5,355 for Florida.

There’s a pretty obvious reason for that disparity—Californians make more money. The median income for a two-person household in the state was $87,355 in 2022, almost $17,000 more than in Florida, according to U.S. Census Bureau numbers. But there is another sizable difference in how the two states tax their citizens. In California, rich people play the most tax, in terms of a percentage of their income. In Florida, it’s the lowest earners who suffer the highest tax burden.

Newsom responded to the Sacramento flights by publicly describing DeSantis as “a small, pathetic man” and again suggesting that Florida officials could face criminal charges over the flights.

According to data from the nonprofit Institute for Taxation and Policy in Washington, D.C., in California the top 1 percent of income earners—those who make at least $714,400 per year and whose average income is $2,158,300—pay a total of 12.4 percent of their income in state and local taxes. In Florida, the top 1 percent starts at $548,700, with an average of $2,340,500. Those wealthy Floridians pay a mere 2.3 percent in total state and local tax.

But in Florida the lowest 20 percent of earners, those making $18,700 or less, shoulder a total tax burden of 12.7 percent, higher than any other income bracket. The lowest earning 20 percent of Californians, who earn $23,200 or less, pay 10.5 percent in total state and local tax.

Immigration: the Issue That Set This Whole Thing Off

Considering that Newsom’s debate challenge came after DeSantis flew a plane load of immigrants to Martha’s Vineyard, immigration is sure to be a prime topic for debate. In June of 2023, DeSantis followed up his Martha’s Vineyard stunt by targeting California directly, flying another 36 migrants to Sacramento. Florida officials claimed that the migrants, who were flown from Texas, not Florida, gave “verbal and written consent” to get on the flights.

Newsom responded to the Sacramento flights by publicly describing DeSantis as “a small, pathetic man” and again suggesting that Florida officials could face criminal charges over the flights.

“These sanctuary jurisdictions are part of the reason we have this problem because they have endorsed and agitated for these types of open border policies,” DeSantis said after the Sacramento flights, apparently referring to California which in 2017 became a “sanctuary” state for immigrants. “When they have to deal with some of the fruits of that they all of a sudden become very, very upset about that.”

DeSantis’ apparent suggestion that California does not normally deal with immigrants is patently absurd. As of 2021, California’s immigrant population numbered 10.5 million, more than 25 percent of the state’s entire population. Florida was home to 4.6 million immigrants, slightly more than 20 percent of its whole population.

So what’s the point of the Newsom-DeSantis feud and the proposed debate, if it actually happens?

“This is sort of a proxy war, if you will, for a broader fight between the Democratic vision of the country and a Republican vision of the country,” political scientist Steven Webster told U.S. News and World Report.